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the definition shows a distant

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retrograde orbit was to ensure that the

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we didn't leave a cloud of debris as

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someone mentioned but also it's a very

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stable orbit that could allow the rock

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to be

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in a position where it won't harm

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anything

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for quite a long time as some

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calculation showed as long as 100 years

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so i think

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it's interesting that people are

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thinking about you know what ways can we

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use the station and i think there's

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other studies that are being pursued to

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explore that but for the reference

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concept here we didn't explore that

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option

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very good

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another question or comment from the

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floor anybody

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any anything at all

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so i have to write the final report for

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this workshop and what i'd really like

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to see are some recommendations from

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this group not just findings

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on future steps and studies

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it seems like there's some

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potential

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strengths of the

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expandable or deployable boom concepts

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relative to

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inflatables

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so

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you know they might have less weight

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because you don't have an inflation

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system they might have better

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spin dynamics we really need to

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investigate that so

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one potential recommendation would be to

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do some comparative studies of

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deplorable boom concepts versus the

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inflatable concepts

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and

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the other

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thought was that the

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yo-yo d-span could be used

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with the

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mothership

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like

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the

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reference concept that brian shared at

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the beginning we've already captured

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asteroid

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and

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spacecraft goes to these

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maneuvers and so maybe we just deploy a

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cubesat off the back of the mothership

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mothership and

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that would reduce some of the burden on

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the rcs

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i don't know if it trades from a mass

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standpoint no you're saving propellant

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versus a cubesat but we should look into

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that

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we looked at yoyos for uh for

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de-spinning because we are

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planning to use you know up to about 200

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kilos of rcs propellant to do this job

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and so that's not a trivial amount

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the concern we had was that the the yoyo

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could get tangled in the solar panels

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and things like that solar array

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booms

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and so

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if you consider all the possible spin

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states

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it's not obvious that there's any place

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you can put a yoyo that doesn't risk

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entanglement and so that was why we

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decided because there definitely is a

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mass advantage you could get down to you

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know five or six kilos of yoyo

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to do this job with kilometers of tether

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but

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we could not see a way

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that in all the pathological spin states

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that you wouldn't risk entangling the

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well

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you know um our you know our driver the

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que the question that

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beau asks is is what about you know

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leaving and pulling back and just

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leaving the yoyo and

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the concern we had is is the separable

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spacecraft cost and so because our

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charter was to minimize the cost of this

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we elected not to

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study in any detail

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any of the concepts that had a separable

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spacecraft

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certainly you can imagine a separable

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spacecraft that doesn't have solar array

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booms

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are certainly not large ones

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that that goes up and and does something

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but the you know most people when they

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hear

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a second spacecraft the cash register

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rings you know some large number of

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millions of dollars and uh and and

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whether that's true or not that's the

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environment we live in and that's what

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you know reviewers are going to think

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and so we did not put any effort into

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studying that

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so just two more thoughts um

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one

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should we look at retractable solar rays

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so we don't have to worry so much about

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breaking them

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we do have some concepts for large solar

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rays that can be retracted and extended

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so we need to trade off the risk of that

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versus

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you know the

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lower loads on a retracted array

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and

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finally i thought

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point and we really need to look at this

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other mission scenario where we pluck a

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boulder off the surface and most of our

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capture system concepts are

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for capturing the whole asteroid but we

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don't really have

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a lot of good ideas yet on how to

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pluck a rock off the surface other than

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the one that

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ryan showed

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so

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ideas i think those are those are good

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inputs because um

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one of the challenges i think the agency

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uh sees is we've we've done a certain

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amount of analysis on our own but we'd

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also

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this whole workshop has been intended to

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solicit

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ideas and concepts from industry and

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academia and the general public so every

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every idea that you're bringing forward

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i'm i'm writing it down and gonna try

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and synthesize it together and i've

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worked with chris closely uh before on a

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number of ideas and concepts so we're

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trying to capture everything that we can

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to bring

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more informed um analysis and decision

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making by the by the agency so we

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appreciate everyone everything you all

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are bringing forward next comment i'd

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like to speak to the number of the

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comments that were just made one about

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retracting solar arrays

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uh already in in industry one of the

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things we sometimes do if there's a

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leonid swarm or meteorites approaching

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we feather the arrays to

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prevent present a minimum surface area

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towards the on towards the radiant to

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the meteor stream so there is a little

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bit of heritage in that direction

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already but the next thing one might

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think about is to have a sort of hinge

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mount underneath where the sata is and

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just hinge the solar array out of the

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way

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and then the solar the sata might not be

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able to be operable and it would rotate

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to a desired position and then be hinged

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out of the way and you wouldn't operate

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the sata anymore until you hinged it

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back that would be one way to approach

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that

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the

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i perceive a desire not to cause any

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structural deformation

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or

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change physical change to the

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asteroid that we're trying to capture

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but

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this is sort of a mirror image of the

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notion of pick up a rock what you might

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say is we've got this irregular

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object we're going to we're trying to

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capture here and it's got undesirable

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spin on it maybe what we need to do is

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to give it a shave

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as a somebody who wears a beard i can i

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can

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see this point um give it a shave before

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you uh before you bring it home

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it needs a little cleanup and we'd like

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to bring it home pristine but the way we

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found it but we'll take good pictures of

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it and and uh then we're gonna we're

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gonna cut this irregular piece off maybe

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with a robot arm hitting it and maybe by

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doing that we also change its its mass

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properties that's one of the things in

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commercial spacecraft we concern

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ourselves with a lot of the mass

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properties of the object if you

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gave it a shave it would then be

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all set up maybe for a

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more benign d spin

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all right thank you

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marshall

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so and following up on what he said i

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think

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one thing that this group might sort of

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convey back upstream is

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that the object will in fact be changed

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how it would be changed is unclear

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you know you can say well we'll try not

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to modify it or whatever we don't really

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know we might touch it and it falls into

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pieces you don't know

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and so

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a question relay upstream is is there

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anything that we need to measure before

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we touch it

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you know

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he just mentioned taking pictures well

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is that is that one of the goals do you

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have to take pictures from all sides

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you know

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and so on i mean

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i i think really the thing that this

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group could do is just sort of raise

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that flag and just say hey you know

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things are going to be changed and don't

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come to us afterwards and say oh but now

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we can't

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right you know

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now we can't determine this because

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you've mucked with the surface so one of

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the things we've done in some of the

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studies over the spring and summer is

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try to engage the

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planetary science community to

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understand what

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characteristics they want to be able to

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explore and understand so your input is

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right in line with some of the things

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they've been talking about yeah i mean

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not even in a sort of bigger picture you

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might even consider going to the lunar

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planetary science conference it's coming

260
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up or whatever and giving a presentation

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on that and saying you know what what

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should we be thinking about what's

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what's important here very good thank

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you

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next commenter

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yeah so my comment is uh to chris's

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point about uh

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this alternative uh mission concept to

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grab a boulder off the surface and it

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and it relates to the concept that brian

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muir had presented as well

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i think it would be at a high level

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useful to think about these concepts

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that were presented today for that

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alternate

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um

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approach but i would put out a strong

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word of caution that the constraints are

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very different if you're capturing an

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object that's in free space

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you have a lot of flexibility whereas if

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you're capturing an object that's

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fixtured to something else

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you're going to want a different kind of

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system specifically you can't have

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isotropic compliance because that

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boulder is going to be

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potentially much more massive than your

289
00:10:28,470 --> 00:10:25,360
spacecraft so if you're slightly

290
00:10:30,710 --> 00:10:28,480
misaligned or if the boulder is bulging

291
00:10:32,470 --> 00:10:30,720
on one side you're going to make contact

292
00:10:34,550 --> 00:10:32,480
with that first that's going to impart

293
00:10:36,790 --> 00:10:34,560
loads to your spacecraft

294
00:10:38,389 --> 00:10:36,800
that are going to cause you to tip over

295
00:10:40,550 --> 00:10:38,399
so you know the work dan is doing is

296
00:10:43,110 --> 00:10:40,560
going to tell us how well that boulder

297
00:10:44,710 --> 00:10:43,120
may be fixtured to the surface

298
00:10:47,350 --> 00:10:44,720
but if you look at you know the field of

299
00:10:49,190 --> 00:10:47,360
robotic manipulation uh they'll tell you

300
00:10:51,750 --> 00:10:49,200
it's a it's a very different problem to

301
00:10:54,069 --> 00:10:51,760
pick up a ball on a table than it is to

302
00:10:56,870 --> 00:10:54,079
grab a ball shaped doorknob that's

303
00:10:58,949 --> 00:10:56,880
fixtured to something um so you need to

304
00:11:00,790 --> 00:10:58,959
consider that when we look at extending

305
00:11:04,550 --> 00:11:00,800
the concepts

306
00:11:10,310 --> 00:11:06,069
next comment do we have anything more

307
00:11:13,190 --> 00:11:11,829
you've asked a lot of questions today

308
00:11:16,230 --> 00:11:13,200
you look like you're primed to ask a

309
00:11:18,389 --> 00:11:16,240
question or make a comment it was

310
00:11:19,910 --> 00:11:18,399
as far as the tethers the tethers go

311
00:11:23,110 --> 00:11:19,920
would it be possible to use the

312
00:11:24,069 --> 00:11:23,120
spacecraft itself as the yoyo and you

313
00:11:26,069 --> 00:11:24,079
know

314
00:11:26,949 --> 00:11:26,079
pull it away and keep it tethered and

315
00:11:28,389 --> 00:11:26,959
then

316
00:11:30,230 --> 00:11:28,399
not only would you not have to worry

317
00:11:32,069 --> 00:11:30,240
about anything getting entangled in in

318
00:11:34,069 --> 00:11:32,079
solar arrays or things but you'd also

319
00:11:35,430 --> 00:11:34,079
increase your lever arm which i would

320
00:11:37,590 --> 00:11:35,440
think would make

321
00:11:40,550 --> 00:11:37,600
would allow you to use less

322
00:11:42,470 --> 00:11:40,560
uh propellant in trying to de-spin

323
00:11:45,670 --> 00:11:42,480
and brian do you have anything to say

324
00:11:50,069 --> 00:11:47,910
uh we did not explicitly consider that

325
00:11:52,230 --> 00:11:50,079
but um certainly that could be done and

326
00:11:54,870 --> 00:11:52,240
you probably would reduce your uh

327
00:11:58,629 --> 00:11:54,880
propellant significantly by doing that

328
00:12:00,230 --> 00:11:58,639
um but once we were down in the 200 kilo

329
00:12:02,870 --> 00:12:00,240
considering that we're carrying 10 tons

330
00:12:04,870 --> 00:12:02,880
of xenon uh we felt that you know that

331
00:12:08,629 --> 00:12:04,880
just the added complexity

332
00:12:11,110 --> 00:12:08,639
um would you know would not be a good

333
00:12:13,110 --> 00:12:11,120
yeah it's it's a it's a lesser version

334
00:12:15,590 --> 00:12:13,120
of the of the separable spacecraft

335
00:12:17,269 --> 00:12:15,600
argument basically that means that the

336
00:12:19,190 --> 00:12:17,279
the whole s

337
00:12:22,310 --> 00:12:19,200
um

338
00:12:24,550 --> 00:12:22,320
uh system that captures the whole

339
00:12:25,750 --> 00:12:24,560
capture mechanism

340
00:12:26,629 --> 00:12:25,760
has to be

341
00:12:29,350 --> 00:12:26,639
uh

342
00:12:32,069 --> 00:12:29,360
releasable which we already have

343
00:12:34,150 --> 00:12:32,079
because if if we decide you know later

344
00:12:35,990 --> 00:12:34,160
when the astronauts are deploying it if

345
00:12:37,190 --> 00:12:36,000
we decide we want to use the system for

346
00:12:38,389 --> 00:12:37,200
something else

347
00:12:41,030 --> 00:12:38,399
we already have

348
00:12:43,350 --> 00:12:41,040
set nuts and so on that can they can pop

349
00:12:44,790 --> 00:12:43,360
off the whole capture system but then

350
00:12:46,870 --> 00:12:44,800
you have a requirement that you'll be

351
00:12:49,350 --> 00:12:46,880
able to reel it back in on the tether

352
00:12:51,509 --> 00:12:49,360
and reconnect re-dock with it and so

353
00:12:52,870 --> 00:12:51,519
that's a whole new set of requirements

354
00:12:55,190 --> 00:12:52,880
and hardware

355
00:12:57,990 --> 00:12:55,200
that we felt was just going to add you

356
00:13:00,310 --> 00:12:58,000
know the the 200 kilos of rcs propellant

357
00:13:01,190 --> 00:13:00,320
seemed like you know it was small enough

358
00:13:08,629 --> 00:13:01,200
to

359
00:13:10,870 --> 00:13:08,639
re-dock with this capture mechanism

360
00:13:12,710 --> 00:13:10,880
all right mr enriquez

361
00:13:14,710 --> 00:13:12,720
yeah i just wanted to uh bring up the

362
00:13:15,829 --> 00:13:14,720
point uh we really didn't discuss in

363
00:13:17,030 --> 00:13:15,839
detail

364
00:13:19,670 --> 00:13:17,040
if you could move a little closer to the

365
00:13:21,590 --> 00:13:19,680
mic sure we didn't discuss in detail the

366
00:13:24,069 --> 00:13:21,600
transition between

367
00:13:26,389 --> 00:13:24,079
uh what what we consider the soft

368
00:13:28,310 --> 00:13:26,399
capture phase or when we're trying to

369
00:13:30,150 --> 00:13:28,320
attach ourselves to the asteroid and

370
00:13:32,230 --> 00:13:30,160
what we call the final hard capture

371
00:13:34,790 --> 00:13:32,240
phase i believe that that's one of the

372
00:13:36,870 --> 00:13:34,800
areas that we need to be look

373
00:13:38,150 --> 00:13:36,880
needs to be looked into more

374
00:13:40,870 --> 00:13:38,160
in detail

375
00:13:42,870 --> 00:13:40,880
since we know that that transition is

376
00:13:44,069 --> 00:13:42,880
going to give rise to loads that can be

377
00:13:46,069 --> 00:13:44,079
imported

378
00:13:48,389 --> 00:13:46,079
either to the capture

379
00:13:50,230 --> 00:13:48,399
system or to the spacecraft

380
00:13:51,990 --> 00:13:50,240
and so that area

381
00:13:53,110 --> 00:13:52,000
which always uh

382
00:13:55,590 --> 00:13:53,120
gave us

383
00:13:57,350 --> 00:13:55,600
in our design of attachment systems for

384
00:13:58,870 --> 00:13:57,360
the space station uh

385
00:13:59,990 --> 00:13:58,880
was the challenge

386
00:14:01,590 --> 00:14:00,000
and so

387
00:14:04,389 --> 00:14:01,600
we still have the challenge here

388
00:14:06,069 --> 00:14:04,399
particularly now that the asteroid is

389
00:14:08,470 --> 00:14:06,079
rotating so

390
00:14:10,069 --> 00:14:08,480
i wanted to bring that up as an area

391
00:14:11,509 --> 00:14:10,079
that really needs to be looked into more

392
00:14:15,110 --> 00:14:11,519
closely

393
00:14:19,910 --> 00:14:17,590
any other thoughts or questions we we

394
00:14:21,350 --> 00:14:19,920
got plenty of time but i know that some

395
00:14:22,629 --> 00:14:21,360
people may want to go to lunch so we

396
00:14:25,590 --> 00:14:22,639
don't want to

397
00:14:28,949 --> 00:14:25,600
unduly restrain you

398
00:14:31,110 --> 00:14:28,959
i wanted to say again that we've

399
00:14:33,590 --> 00:14:31,120
the agency again is has

400
00:14:36,150 --> 00:14:33,600
been seeking outside input uh this is

401
00:14:38,629 --> 00:14:36,160
one mechanism but there are other ways

402
00:14:40,389 --> 00:14:38,639
that the agency explores or there are

403
00:14:43,030 --> 00:14:40,399
different advisory bodies and then

404
00:14:44,629 --> 00:14:43,040
consultations with uh with partners all

405
00:14:46,150 --> 00:14:44,639
around so

406
00:14:47,590 --> 00:14:46,160
don't feel like this is the only

407
00:14:49,990 --> 00:14:47,600
opportunity

408
00:14:50,949 --> 00:14:50,000
to provide some inputs to nasa and i

409
00:14:53,269 --> 00:14:50,959
think

410
00:14:56,629 --> 00:14:53,279
through the website and some of the

411
00:14:58,710 --> 00:14:56,639
other mechanisms we've definitely got

412
00:15:00,150 --> 00:14:58,720
opportunities there and then the agency

413
00:15:01,269 --> 00:15:00,160
is going to continue to do its

414
00:15:04,790 --> 00:15:01,279
formulation

415
00:15:06,629 --> 00:15:04,800
work and explore not just this

416
00:15:10,230 --> 00:15:06,639
area of capture systems but all of the

417
00:15:12,230 --> 00:15:10,240
dimensions of the of the mission as was

418
00:15:13,670 --> 00:15:12,240
stated and defined in the rfi and then

419
00:15:16,389 --> 00:15:13,680
of course brian muir heads talked about

420
00:15:18,470 --> 00:15:16,399
the alternate mission concept which

421
00:15:20,790 --> 00:15:18,480
wasn't we didn't solicit any solicit

422
00:15:23,590 --> 00:15:20,800
inputs via the rfi so there's other

423
00:15:25,750 --> 00:15:23,600
activities that may uh guide and

424
00:15:27,430 --> 00:15:25,760
influence the work that we're doing here

425
00:15:29,269 --> 00:15:27,440
today

426
00:15:30,870 --> 00:15:29,279
anything more from the online

427
00:15:32,629 --> 00:15:30,880
pedro

428
00:15:35,350 --> 00:15:32,639
questions now on twitter

429
00:15:36,870 --> 00:15:35,360
and there's a question for

430
00:15:38,150 --> 00:15:36,880
let's see

431
00:15:38,949 --> 00:15:38,160
herald

432
00:15:41,110 --> 00:15:38,959
on

433
00:15:43,590 --> 00:15:41,120
can the asteroid regolith be used to

434
00:15:45,829 --> 00:15:43,600
augment the end mast for very large

435
00:15:47,350 --> 00:15:45,839
asteroids basically gather mass like a

436
00:15:49,430 --> 00:15:47,360
starfish

437
00:15:52,310 --> 00:15:49,440
a similar question on

438
00:15:54,629 --> 00:15:52,320
for jeff could cubesat eat some regular

439
00:15:56,550 --> 00:15:54,639
regolith and store in a small ballast

440
00:15:59,030 --> 00:15:56,560
bag prior to deploying the tether

441
00:16:01,350 --> 00:15:59,040
basically augmenting your end mass okay

442
00:16:03,110 --> 00:16:01,360
howard if you could go first

443
00:16:06,069 --> 00:16:03,120
oh i just had a comment that there's a

444
00:16:07,509 --> 00:16:06,079
huge need for an ep tug in the earth

445
00:16:09,910 --> 00:16:07,519
earth moon system

446
00:16:11,910 --> 00:16:09,920
uh beyond nasa and so it's very possible

447
00:16:12,790 --> 00:16:11,920
to get other mission partners who could

448
00:16:15,269 --> 00:16:12,800
uh

449
00:16:17,269 --> 00:16:15,279
contribute funding for that capability

450
00:16:19,430 --> 00:16:17,279
there is an issue of mission control so

451
00:16:21,509 --> 00:16:19,440
it has to be you know carefully crafted

452
00:16:23,670 --> 00:16:21,519
so that this mission isn't impacted but

453
00:16:25,189 --> 00:16:23,680
uh this would have a lot of utility to

454
00:16:27,430 --> 00:16:25,199
those other areas

455
00:16:29,269 --> 00:16:27,440
okay so the question that someone online

456
00:16:31,350 --> 00:16:29,279
had a question for you and that that's

457
00:16:33,430 --> 00:16:31,360
yes sorry so thinking about my question

458
00:16:35,269 --> 00:16:33,440
that's fine say the part about for

459
00:16:39,030 --> 00:16:35,279
howard again sorry about that real quick

460
00:16:41,189 --> 00:16:39,040
pedro uh sure okay so it says uh would

461
00:16:43,590 --> 00:16:41,199
tether capture hold on can astro

462
00:16:47,110 --> 00:16:43,600
regulate be used to augment the end math

463
00:16:47,990 --> 00:16:47,120
for very large very large asteroids

464
00:16:48,949 --> 00:16:48,000
so

465
00:16:50,790 --> 00:16:48,959
let's see

466
00:16:54,069 --> 00:16:50,800
others at jpl might want to comment on

467
00:16:54,949 --> 00:16:54,079
that they're the isru kind of gurus but

468
00:16:57,509 --> 00:16:54,959
um

469
00:17:00,069 --> 00:16:57,519
that would be a whole development beyond

470
00:17:02,310 --> 00:17:00,079
this so eventually that's a goal i

471
00:17:04,230 --> 00:17:02,320
believe of this mission is to understand

472
00:17:06,789 --> 00:17:04,240
the asteroids enough that that could be

473
00:17:09,189 --> 00:17:06,799
done to put that level of risk into this

474
00:17:10,789 --> 00:17:09,199
mission would be um

475
00:17:12,870 --> 00:17:10,799
would probably

476
00:17:14,710 --> 00:17:12,880
put too much on this one mission okay

477
00:17:15,669 --> 00:17:14,720
and then we had a question i think for

478
00:17:18,390 --> 00:17:15,679
jeff

479
00:17:20,309 --> 00:17:18,400
the part on the tether

480
00:17:22,630 --> 00:17:20,319
these two questions are related it says

481
00:17:25,189 --> 00:17:22,640
could cubesat eat some regolith and

482
00:17:27,189 --> 00:17:25,199
store in a small ballast bag prior to

483
00:17:30,150 --> 00:17:27,199
deploying the tether

484
00:17:32,789 --> 00:17:30,160
technically it could um the

485
00:17:34,470 --> 00:17:32,799
d spin i think is the square of the

486
00:17:37,110 --> 00:17:34,480
tether length and the tether weighs

487
00:17:38,789 --> 00:17:37,120
nothing it's basically dental floss so

488
00:17:40,230 --> 00:17:38,799
from a complexity standpoint i don't

489
00:17:41,909 --> 00:17:40,240
think it would be worth it because you

490
00:17:44,830 --> 00:17:41,919
could just add another couple kilometers

491
00:17:46,870 --> 00:17:44,840
of tether if you wanted to at almost no

492
00:17:48,710 --> 00:17:46,880
penalty okay

493
00:17:50,789 --> 00:17:48,720
it looks like we've got a do you have a

494
00:17:55,750 --> 00:17:50,799
comment

495
00:17:59,669 --> 00:17:57,830
yeah i think the uh fella before i

496
00:18:01,909 --> 00:17:59,679
answered it pretty pretty well i mean uh

497
00:18:04,310 --> 00:18:01,919
for the tethers if i mean we're looking

498
00:18:06,789 --> 00:18:04,320
at having a spacecraft you know capture

499
00:18:08,310 --> 00:18:06,799
uh you know the asteroid that would be

500
00:18:09,669 --> 00:18:08,320
mass that you could i mean it's already

501
00:18:10,789 --> 00:18:09,679
connected you know so the added

502
00:18:14,470 --> 00:18:10,799
complexity like the other fella

503
00:18:17,510 --> 00:18:14,480
mentioned is is a lot more difficult

504
00:18:22,950 --> 00:18:20,470
so um if i can maybe do a little recap

505
00:18:25,029 --> 00:18:22,960
just to kind of play back uh some of the

506
00:18:26,950 --> 00:18:25,039
general conversation we've had

507
00:18:28,470 --> 00:18:26,960
in this um

508
00:18:30,789 --> 00:18:28,480
commenting session

509
00:18:33,510 --> 00:18:30,799
um we've got uh

510
00:18:35,990 --> 00:18:33,520
feedback from uh

511
00:18:38,549 --> 00:18:36,000
on trying to understand you know how

512
00:18:40,870 --> 00:18:38,559
much uh impact does the capture have on

513
00:18:43,350 --> 00:18:40,880
the asteroid you know what

514
00:18:45,990 --> 00:18:43,360
provisions should we look at exploring

515
00:18:47,669 --> 00:18:46,000
to address that

516
00:18:49,350 --> 00:18:47,679
we know that there is a variety of

517
00:18:51,590 --> 00:18:49,360
different objects

518
00:18:54,150 --> 00:18:51,600
out there for consideration some of the

519
00:18:57,110 --> 00:18:54,160
early analysis has been on

520
00:18:59,270 --> 00:18:57,120
neos that are not binaries uh and but

521
00:19:01,350 --> 00:18:59,280
there's a whole other session that i

522
00:19:03,029 --> 00:19:01,360
think took place on the first day of the

523
00:19:03,750 --> 00:19:03,039
workshop back in september that looked

524
00:19:08,070 --> 00:19:03,760
at

525
00:19:09,669 --> 00:19:08,080
of the key elements of this entire

526
00:19:12,150 --> 00:19:09,679
initiative is to try and understand and

527
00:19:13,669 --> 00:19:12,160
characterize the asteroid targets that

528
00:19:15,669 --> 00:19:13,679
are being considered so i'm hoping that

529
00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:15,679
that would yield the information that we

530
00:19:19,909 --> 00:19:17,760
would need to address the question about

531
00:19:22,150 --> 00:19:19,919
the potential for a binary that we

532
00:19:23,909 --> 00:19:22,160
didn't didn't realize

533
00:19:26,710 --> 00:19:23,919
i think there's been a lot of discussion

534
00:19:29,270 --> 00:19:26,720
overall about uh how do you

535
00:19:32,470 --> 00:19:29,280
work with a rubble pile or a dirt clod

536
00:19:34,150 --> 00:19:32,480
asteroid so any capture system uh that's

537
00:19:36,070 --> 00:19:34,160
being envisioned is gonna have to have

538
00:19:38,070 --> 00:19:36,080
enough flexibility or robustness to

539
00:19:39,270 --> 00:19:38,080
handle you know range of potential

540
00:19:40,390 --> 00:19:39,280
materials

541
00:19:41,990 --> 00:19:40,400
um

542
00:19:45,830 --> 00:19:42,000
unders

543
00:19:48,789 --> 00:19:45,840
asteroid again i think is going to be a

544
00:19:49,669 --> 00:19:48,799
big part of the observation campaign

545
00:19:51,510 --> 00:19:49,679
um

546
00:19:53,990 --> 00:19:51,520
chris moore brought forward the idea

547
00:19:55,990 --> 00:19:54,000
that we do need to explore

548
00:19:57,669 --> 00:19:56,000
some of these areas in greater depth and

549
00:19:59,110 --> 00:19:57,679
i think we've certainly got a great

550
00:20:01,110 --> 00:19:59,120
starting point

551
00:20:01,830 --> 00:20:01,120
for pursuing that so i'm happy to add

552
00:20:06,390 --> 00:20:01,840
that

553
00:20:07,270 --> 00:20:06,400
be making tomorrow to at least propose

554
00:20:11,430 --> 00:20:07,280
that

555
00:20:16,070 --> 00:20:13,430
i think

556
00:20:17,830 --> 00:20:16,080
those are the those are the main things

557
00:20:20,230 --> 00:20:17,840
obviously we talked more about the yoyo

558
00:20:21,190 --> 00:20:20,240
effect and the tethers scott you had a

559
00:20:23,510 --> 00:20:21,200
comment

560
00:20:25,029 --> 00:20:23,520
about tethers and the changing mass

561
00:20:27,750 --> 00:20:25,039
properties that we would expect in a

562
00:20:30,149 --> 00:20:27,760
rubble pile so say we cast the net or

563
00:20:33,430 --> 00:20:30,159
the bag around it and then start to do

564
00:20:35,590 --> 00:20:33,440
the uh the tethered d spend uh despin

565
00:20:37,029 --> 00:20:35,600
i would presume that the forces in the

566
00:20:39,110 --> 00:20:37,039
bag are going to start changing the

567
00:20:42,470 --> 00:20:39,120
shape of that rubble pile how can the

568
00:20:44,630 --> 00:20:42,480
tether system accommodate for that

569
00:20:51,190 --> 00:20:44,640
who cares after the tether guy okay yeah

570
00:20:55,430 --> 00:20:53,029
i i just like to emphasize for the group

571
00:20:58,070 --> 00:20:55,440
that the forces in all of this are very

572
00:21:00,070 --> 00:20:58,080
small um you know a few a few newtons

573
00:21:01,990 --> 00:21:00,080
you know a one pound of force is enough

574
00:21:03,190 --> 00:21:02,000
to do everything you need to do on this

575
00:21:04,710 --> 00:21:03,200
mission

576
00:21:06,789 --> 00:21:04,720
you don't need

577
00:21:08,870 --> 00:21:06,799
significant forces in

578
00:21:11,430 --> 00:21:08,880
in the terms that most aerospace

579
00:21:13,190 --> 00:21:11,440
engineers you think of large forces so

580
00:21:15,350 --> 00:21:13,200
so we hear people talk about oh you know

581
00:21:16,870 --> 00:21:15,360
it needs to be strong it's what doesn't

582
00:21:18,870 --> 00:21:16,880
really need to be very strong when you

583
00:21:20,149 --> 00:21:18,880
work out the forces you know most of you

584
00:21:21,909 --> 00:21:20,159
probably already done a lot of the back

585
00:21:23,590 --> 00:21:21,919
of the envelope sophomore physics on

586
00:21:26,390 --> 00:21:23,600
this and and if you just you know with

587
00:21:28,149 --> 00:21:26,400
just a little bits of force you can d

588
00:21:31,750 --> 00:21:28,159
spin these things over hours which is

589
00:21:32,789 --> 00:21:31,760
good enough to to solve the problem so

590
00:21:34,390 --> 00:21:32,799
um

591
00:21:35,830 --> 00:21:34,400
more more

592
00:21:37,270 --> 00:21:35,840
key is the

593
00:21:40,230 --> 00:21:37,280
is the point that i tried to make and

594
00:21:42,950 --> 00:21:40,240
that dan shears made um that

595
00:21:45,190 --> 00:21:42,960
that this material could be

596
00:21:48,310 --> 00:21:45,200
way under one psi

597
00:21:50,870 --> 00:21:48,320
compressive and sheer strength and

598
00:21:53,029 --> 00:21:50,880
as a result you know that's why we ended

599
00:21:55,830 --> 00:21:53,039
up with these capture bags

600
00:21:58,950 --> 00:21:55,840
that are inflated to much less than one

601
00:22:00,789 --> 00:21:58,960
psi something comparable to or less than

602
00:22:02,310 --> 00:22:00,799
the the sheer and compressive strength

603
00:22:06,950 --> 00:22:02,320
of the

604
00:22:09,990 --> 00:22:06,960
compress it of course you add strength

605
00:22:11,350 --> 00:22:10,000
so when you confine the thing from all

606
00:22:13,750 --> 00:22:11,360
sides

607
00:22:16,630 --> 00:22:13,760
it'll tend to be more cohesive than it

608
00:22:19,029 --> 00:22:16,640
would just in free space

609
00:22:21,669 --> 00:22:19,039
and but as long as we

610
00:22:24,950 --> 00:22:21,679
see as we inflate the bags we watch the

611
00:22:27,669 --> 00:22:24,960
imu of the spacecraft and if the imu

612
00:22:29,270 --> 00:22:27,679
says the spacecraft is not doing what we

613
00:22:31,669 --> 00:22:29,280
thought it would do for example if the

614
00:22:33,990 --> 00:22:31,679
center of mass is slightly off from

615
00:22:36,310 --> 00:22:34,000
where we thought the center of mass was

616
00:22:38,230 --> 00:22:36,320
we adjust the inflation pressures so

617
00:22:39,750 --> 00:22:38,240
that we don't

618
00:22:41,510 --> 00:22:39,760
number one we don't want to trigger

619
00:22:43,909 --> 00:22:41,520
adverse you know excessive forces on the

620
00:22:45,830 --> 00:22:43,919
spacecraft solar arrays um but number

621
00:22:48,870 --> 00:22:45,840
two we don't you know we want to take

622
00:22:50,789 --> 00:22:48,880
that into account in the future dynamic

623
00:22:52,390 --> 00:22:50,799
you know prediction of where we're going

624
00:22:53,909 --> 00:22:52,400
to be where we're going to fire rcs

625
00:22:56,310 --> 00:22:53,919
thrusters to start de-tumbling and

626
00:22:58,390 --> 00:22:56,320
de-spinning things like that but we have

627
00:23:01,430 --> 00:22:58,400
22 newton thrusters which actually turn

628
00:23:03,990 --> 00:23:01,440
out to be you know large you know

629
00:23:06,950 --> 00:23:04,000
for what we really need to apply

630
00:23:08,789 --> 00:23:06,960
um in terms of the d-spin forces so

631
00:23:10,630 --> 00:23:08,799
we're going to try not to modify the

632
00:23:12,310 --> 00:23:10,640
shape of the

633
00:23:14,870 --> 00:23:12,320
of the asteroid

634
00:23:17,430 --> 00:23:14,880
and the yoyo would be probably have even

635
00:23:20,230 --> 00:23:17,440
less force than you know than the 22

636
00:23:22,630 --> 00:23:20,240
newton rcs thrusters so the once you

637
00:23:24,310 --> 00:23:22,640
start to deploy the yoyo

638
00:23:26,950 --> 00:23:24,320
if you went it did it that way you would

639
00:23:29,669 --> 00:23:26,960
do it slowly so that again over a period

640
00:23:31,029 --> 00:23:29,679
of hours or days you know a day or a

641
00:23:33,270 --> 00:23:31,039
couple of days

642
00:23:35,190 --> 00:23:33,280
you could de-spin the thing easily and

643
00:23:37,990 --> 00:23:35,200
and with just you know one pound of

644
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:42,310
thanks brian really appreciate that

645
00:23:47,029 --> 00:23:44,230
all right well we're

646
00:23:49,269 --> 00:23:47,039
i think we've done a great job here this

647
00:23:51,590 --> 00:23:49,279
morning of trying to canvas

648
00:23:52,549 --> 00:23:51,600
all of all of you all i think there's a

649
00:23:54,470 --> 00:23:52,559
lot of

650
00:23:56,470 --> 00:23:54,480
areas in which i think different folks

651
00:23:58,470 --> 00:23:56,480
have have brought their in their

652
00:24:00,310 --> 00:23:58,480
expertise and their perspectives

653
00:24:01,750 --> 00:24:00,320
certainly the industry

654
00:24:03,669 --> 00:24:01,760
partners have been

655
00:24:05,029 --> 00:24:03,679
very good in sharing with their flight

656
00:24:06,870 --> 00:24:05,039
experience has been and how they've

657
00:24:07,990 --> 00:24:06,880
applied their technologies to other

658
00:24:09,510 --> 00:24:08,000
domains

659
00:24:12,230 --> 00:24:09,520
we've had some representatives from

660
00:24:14,870 --> 00:24:12,240
academic community sharing with their

661
00:24:16,950 --> 00:24:14,880
experience and then nasa personnel from

662
00:24:18,950 --> 00:24:16,960
the study teams also shared their

663
00:24:21,430 --> 00:24:18,960
experience i think we've got a good

664
00:24:23,750 --> 00:24:21,440
broad cross-section of

665
00:24:26,390 --> 00:24:23,760
folks taking a look at this problem we

666
00:24:28,870 --> 00:24:26,400
really appreciate all of the responses

667
00:24:30,630 --> 00:24:28,880
to the rfi and particularly you all who

668
00:24:33,029 --> 00:24:30,640
are able to join us here

669
00:24:35,269 --> 00:24:33,039
today what i would invite you to do is

670
00:24:37,350 --> 00:24:35,279
to participate in some of the sessions

671
00:24:39,669 --> 00:24:37,360
this afternoon there's a crew crude

672
00:24:41,669 --> 00:24:39,679
system session i think is it going to be

673
00:24:43,909 --> 00:24:41,679
in this room pedro

674
00:24:45,750 --> 00:24:43,919
okay so look at your program to figure

675
00:24:47,750 --> 00:24:45,760
out i think we've got three sessions

676
00:24:49,750 --> 00:24:47,760
this afternoon two to three sessions

677
00:24:51,990 --> 00:24:49,760
some here and maybe one in the lecture

678
00:24:54,310 --> 00:24:52,000
hall and then tomorrow

679
00:24:56,230 --> 00:24:54,320
between 10 and noon they're slated to

680
00:24:57,750 --> 00:24:56,240
have a summary or out brief of each of

681
00:24:58,789 --> 00:24:57,760
the sessions so i'll be doing the out

682
00:25:00,789 --> 00:24:58,799
brief

683
00:25:02,710 --> 00:25:00,799
from this session and

684
00:25:05,029 --> 00:25:02,720
if you want to get some additional

685
00:25:06,510 --> 00:25:05,039
thoughts to me between now and then

686
00:25:09,029 --> 00:25:06,520
i'm

687
00:25:10,390 --> 00:25:09,039
andre.j.sylvester nasa.gov

688
00:25:12,630 --> 00:25:10,400
if you want to send me a quick email

689
00:25:14,710 --> 00:25:12,640
note i'd be happy to at least respond to

690
00:25:17,430 --> 00:25:14,720
you but again i'd like to thank everyone

691
00:25:19,430 --> 00:25:17,440
for their participation uh enjoy maybe a

692
00:25:21,590 --> 00:25:19,440
little bit longer lunch break i think we

693
00:25:22,470 --> 00:25:21,600
the whole activity starts up again at 1

694
00:25:24,310 --> 00:25:22,480
30

695
00:25:26,230 --> 00:25:24,320
this afternoon and because of the bus

696
00:25:28,630 --> 00:25:26,240
system we've got i would say give

697
00:25:30,390 --> 00:25:28,640
yourself some extra time in getting

698
00:25:32,070 --> 00:25:30,400
getting back here allow for the transit

699
00:25:33,669 --> 00:25:32,080
time of the of the bus